ICE and border officials grilled at hearing on killings of US citizens
Published in Political News
WASHINGTON — The leaders of the agencies enforcing President Trump's immigration crackdown faced tough questioning on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, with one Democratic lawmaker asking the head of ICE if he would apologize to the families of two U.S. citizens who were killed by federal agents and called domestic terrorists by Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.
Todd Lyons, acting head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, declined to apologize to the families of Renee Good and Alex Pretti during the hearing but said he welcomed the opportunity to speak to Good's family in private.
"I'm not going to speak to any ongoing investigation," Lyons said.
The hearing marked the first time the heads of the three immigration agencies had testified before the House Homeland Security Committee since the deaths of Good and Pretti. The testimony came as talks between congressional Democrats and Republicans have stalled ahead of a Friday deadline to fund the Department of Homeland Security.
Along with Lyons, the other witnesses were Joseph Edlow, director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, and Rodney Scott, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection. Their agencies fall under Homeland Security.
Lyons and Scott declined to comment on the shootings of Good and Pretti, citing the investigations, but defended the Trump administration's immigration policies and their agents.
Democrats and some Republicans have called for increased oversight of the Trump administration's immigration operations since the shootings last month of Good and Pretti, both 37, by federal agents.
The hearing was called by a Republican from New York, Rep. Andrew Garbarino, who framed the day as part of the panel's regular oversight duties and said that public trust and public safety go hand in hand.
"We must take the temperature down and look at the record of enforcement actions through rational eyes," Garbarino said.
He asked for commitments from the ICE and Customs and Border Protection leaders to give the committee the full reports and findings of the investigations into the two shootings once those conclude. Scott and Lyons agreed.
Some Democrats used the hearing to blast the administration's overall approach to immigration.
"The disease rotting the Trump administration, on the inside out, started at the top and has infected every part of the executive branch," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss. "Nowhere is that more evident than at the Department of Homeland Security."
Thompson, the top Democrat on the committee, also criticized Lyons for sidestepping earlier invitations to testify before lawmakers. That changed after Pretti's death.
"You are only here because public outrage has become so unavoidable," Rep. LaMonica McIver, D-N.J., said. "You are only here, Mr. Lyons, because white people are getting shot in the face and chest when the cameras are rolling."
Scott, the Customs and Border Protection commissioner, told the committee members that immigration officers face an unprecedented increase in attacks by people who interfere with law enforcement action. He said these actions are "coordinated and well-funded."
"This is not peaceful protest," he said.
Scott said immigration agents need better protection against threats from "insurgencies or terrorist organizations." He said the reason so many agents surged into Los Angeles and, later, to Minneapolis, was because, for every arrest, the agency placed two teams — "one to do the arrest and another one to deal with the protesters."
Lyons, the ICE leader, told lawmakers that his agency has removed more than 475,000 people from the U.S. and conducted nearly 379,000 arrests since President Trump returned to the White House. He said the agency has hired more than 12,000 officers and agents.
He condemned so-called sanctuary jurisdictions, which limit the collaboration between local law enforcement and ICE, as well as the rhetoric from public officials against ICE.
Lyons testified that 3,000 out of 13,000 ICE agents wear body cameras, and an additional 6,000 cameras will be deployed. Scott estimated that about 10,000 of 20,000 Border Patrol agents wear cameras, adding that "we're building that program out."
In the aftermath of the shootings, the administration replaced Gregory Bovino, a Border Patrol official who led the charge in Minneapolis, with border adviser Tom Homan, a former ICE official. Officials also withdrew some agents and began requiring those in Minneapolis to wear body cameras. Lyons credited Homan with de-escalating the situation.
"The protests, while they still go on, have subsided, and ICE has been allowed to do their targeted, intelligence-driven enforcement operation," Lyons said.
In response to criticism of ICE agents who wear masks during immigration raids, Lyons said he would not require agents to show their faces. (On Monday a federal judge struck down a California law that banned federal immigration agents and other law enforcement officers from hiding their identities with masks in the state.)
Federal officials have said masking is justified because immigration agents face harassment and doxing. Referring to Lyons, Scott said protesters "follow his kid home and then have protests in his frontyard and then put it out live on video — that needs to be a crime."
But Lyons said he would publicly release video from body cameras worn by agents in Minnesota, adding that he is committed to transparency and welcomes the use of body cameras.
"I agree with you completely," said Rep. Tony Gonzales, R-Texas. "Everyone assumes this body camera footage is bad footage. In so many cases it's the exact opposite, and we get a show from the officer's lens what exactly they're dealing with on a daily basis, not just a 15-second clip."
The agency heads faced intense questioning from some Democrats on the committee, including those from California.
Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., asked Lyons about his comment last year that the deportation process should work "like Amazon Prime, but with human beings."
Lyons said the comment had been taken out of context.
"I did say that we need to be more efficient when it comes to removing individuals from the United States, because ICE doesn't detain people punitively — we detain to remove," he said. "I don't want to see people in custody."
"Well, speaking of human beings, how many times has Amazon Prime shot a nurse 10 times in the back?" Swalwell responded.
Swalwell asked how many agents have been fired for their conduct under Lyons' leadership. Lyons said he would get that data.
"Can you tell us if, at least — God, I hope at least one person has been fired for their conduct since these operations have begun," Swalwell said.
Lyons said he wouldn't talk about personnel.
Swalwell was the one who asked Lyons if he would apologize to the families of Good and Pretti. He also asked if Lyons would resign from ICE. Lyons declined.
Rep. Lou Correa, D-Calif., questioned Lyons about whether carrying a U.S. passport is enough for people to avoid being detained or deported. An October report by ProPublica identified more than 170 instances of U.S. citizens who were detained at raids or protests.
Lyons said U.S. citizens shouldn't feel the need to carry their passports.
"No American citizen will be arrested for being an American citizen," Lyons said.
Correa said a number of U.S. citizens in his district, which is majority Latino, have been detained, some for several days.
Lyons said he wasn't aware of any cases of detained American citizens.
In a heated exchange later with Rep. Dan Goldman, D-N.Y. about the same issue, Lyons said ICE conducts "targeted" operations. "We don't walk around the streets asking people about their American citizenship." If ICE agents are conducting an investigation, they'll ask someone their nationality, he added.
Correa also asked whether ICE is surveilling U.S. citizens. Lyons told him there is no database for protesters.
"I can assure you there is no database that's tracking down citizens," he said.
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